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Don't know if any
of you are familar with this, but it is a digitized version of the Parish
Register of Bishops Cannings, Wiltshire - the entries go back to 1591.
You can read the book (literally - the reader is quite cool) on line at
http://www.archive.org/details/registersofbisho00bish
Funny thing is that John Pyle's (the 1594 John) birth is not listed in the
register. The earliest Pyle listed is John, son of Ambrose, baptized 1621.
Nicholas was, of course, baptized in 1625, and John's burial is listed in
1652. There is a listing for a Pyle/Pile in the index for page 8 (about the
year 1597), but there is no corresponding Pile/Pyle listing on page 8. There
is a listing for someone named Tille, so maybe they confused "Pile" for
"Tille" - dunno.
Makes one speculate that John Pyle was not born in the Parish of BC. His
putative father John (allegedly born about 1564, will proved in 1606) had
his will proved at Overton, which (I guess) is not in the Parish of
BishopsCannings...so maybe one would have to look in that register to find
confirmation of his birthdate.
So, my question is, then - if John's birth date of 1594 is *not* found in
the BC registers, then what the heck is the original source for the 1594
birth date?? Anyone have any ideas or leads?
Cheers,
Joe
It
is interesting that the entry for 1597 is the marriage of Thomas Slop(er)
and Joanne Tille mar Wallope in Hampshire 5 June 1597.
It would appear that there is an Ambrose Pile/Pyle who was a brother/cousin
of John and that the first two children credited to John and Mary Withers
Pyle match those listed with Ambrose as father (Howard Pyle book).
It appears that Thomas Pyle, son of John and Mary, may have died at birth or
shortly thereafter as his entry shows eodem die 1628. The date in the Howard
Pyle book for Thomas is actually the baptismal date of Edward who was left
out of the Howard Pyle book.
As I read it Ambrose Pyle was father of John (1621), Robert (1624), Ambrose
(1627) and Rebecca (1631); John and Mary had Nicholas (1625), Thomas (1628),
Edward (1632) and Marie (Mary) (1639).
You may come up with a different listing.
I did notice that marriages in the Parish were also recorded at the Chapelof
St James and that some baptisms and burials for Chittoe at Bromham.
Rob Pyle - Tulsa
My
information states that the John Pyle born in 1564, was born in Stanton,
which I believe is St. Barnard Parish. And, all his children, except John b
1594 were born in Overton (don't know that Parish name) or Stanton. It
seemslikely to me that the John born 1594 was also born in St. Barnard
Parish since siblings born before and after him were born there.
I question the birth date of John Pyle (b 1594) since his father's (John
Pyle born 1564) death date is the same (d 1594). Not many fathers die in
childbirth....and there are indications John Pyle born 1564 - d 1594 had
children after his death.
Thank you for this interesting source of information and I will be
diligently looking up all the children that I have names and birth dates
for.
Do you know if this source includes other Parishes? I couldn't figure out
how to search for them.
Jill Pyle
JIll -
The scan at the URL I listed only contains the Bishops Cannings
Parishregisters, unfortunately. I don't even know which Parishes abut (or
used to, in a historical sense) Bishops Cannings.
The other thing about John Pyle Sr. (i.e., the one born in 1564). I question
the *birth* date - I think 1564 is a bit late, as he had a number of kids,
and if he was married at 20, having 10 kids (which is what the will I have
the abstract of indicates - I forgot to mention "Son-in-law Edward
Laddes and Daughter"), would take at least 15 years, that would put him at
1599 - 20 years would put him at 1604. We know from the will that I have the
abstract of that John didn't die before 1605, the year the will was written,
and was dead by 1606 (30 July), when the will was proved. He could certainly
have been born as late as 1564, but...I never seen an original source for
the 1564 birthdate, just like (which was the impetus for writing my first
note to the list today) I've never seen an original source for John
Pyle(Jr)'s birthdate being 1594. So, my question is, where did that date
come from.
If no one can point me to a parish register, my guess is that someone looked
at John Pyle's (1594) birthdate, said "OK, his dad was...um...30 when he was
born", and thus pulled John Pyle Sr's birthdate out of thin air - or their
backside, take your pick.
-Joe
Joe: hope you got my reply in which I said that John could have been
baptised in Chapel of St James which if we had access to the register it
might answer our questions. Rob in Tulsa
One
more - I see I forgot to mention another will abstract which was on the
next page of my notes
******************
16 January 1615 - Elizabeth Pyle of Overton (widow)
Son Robert Pyle
Daughter Elizabeth Braye
Daughter Mary Pyle
Daughter Jane Gower (or Gover)
Daughter Joane Rumsly
Son Edward Pyle
These are all good observations, Rob - I've never really dug too deeply into
the history of the American-side-of-the-atlantic study of the BC Pyle
family. The early study that seems to be quoted the most is the one (and I
am going on memory here) by Lela Livingston Tait and Homer Tait (ed: Lela
LIVINGSTON, Florence TAIT, Homer PYLE & R.Dean GOODWIN) in 1954.
When I used to haunt the Chester County Historical Society in the late '80s,
I came across a transcription of a will by (I think) John V
Hollingsworth...OK, I am looking at the notes now (taken on 18 Aug 1993).
They say......
***************************************************
Pyle notes, compiled by John V. Hollingsworth
Will abstracts
->Obtained from Maud Hamilton Kirk of Chicago for whom they were collected
by Ethel Lega Weeks, as found in the Cope Collection @ the G.S. PA (which I
assume means the Genealogical Society of PA)
Children of John Pyle and Mary Withers: John, Robert, Nicholas, Thomas,
Edward, Marie
Children of Nicholas Pyle and Edith Musprat: Mary, Robert, Edith, Nicholas,
Samuel, Ambrose (d. young), Ralph, Susanna
(nothing new here, but then the notes go on to say)
Wills
1) June 17, 1588 - John Pyle (Pile) of Andever (Andover) Miller, Hants (so,
Andover in Hampshire, which is less than 20 miles from BC)
Sister Gilian Parker
Two servants Joan Head Edward May
Dau Rose Pile (not 21 yet?)
Son Robert Pile
(Plate to be divided among them @ 21 years)
Grandson John (son of Robert)
Elenor Wife
Overseers William Blake (Brother in Law), Walter Waite (?) Baliff (? my
handwriting here is hard to read)
PCC Rutland T1 (I think PCC is Prerogative Court of Canterbury)
2) February 10, 1605 - John Pyle (Pile) of Queston (I think this should be
Overton), Wilts (Husbandman)
Son Edward Pyle
Son Robert Pyle
Son Ambrose Pyle
Son John Pyle
Three daughters not married
Catherine Pyle
Joane Pyle
Agnes Pyle
Children of Son-in-Law Richard Bray
Son-in-Law Ambrose Torrants (Torrance?)
Wife Elizabeth
Prob (probated) ap Marlboro 30 July 1606, Consistory Court of Sarum
*************************************************
When Steve Thrasher of KY was doing his work before he died, I am pretty
sure he had access to these wills, or had ordered copies from the UK
archives. Clearly, this (the one whose will was proved in 1606) is the John
Pyle/Pile that everyone claims to be the father of John (1594) Pyle. Given
that there is a son Ambrose, I feel pretty sure that this is the Ambrose
that is mentioned early in the BC Parish registers. There is also a Robert
Pyle, and if you remember the entry for "Pyle" in Futhey and Cope's History
of Chester County, Cope mentions that one of the oldest records in the
Chesco Deed Books is a 1688 Power of Attorney from Robert Pyle of Stanton
Barnard, Wilts, to Robert and Nicholas Pyle of Chester County, PA. At the
time, the relationship of Robert and Nicholas to the BC clan wasn't known
(Cope says "...the latter (Robert and Nicholas) were probably sons of the
former.."), so it wasn't until after F&C was published (1881) that whoever
(probably Gilbert Cope, but maybe not?) it was found out that NIcholas (b.
1625) was the father of the Chester County PA Pyle brothers, not Robert (b.
ca. 1621??)
It'd be nice to be able to see a bit more concrete work on the Wiltshire and
Hampshire county lines. We know (through the DNA) that the BC/Overton lines
and the Wallops/Andover lines are connected - but we just don't know how far
back beyond 1565 or so we have to go to find the link.
-Joe
That was my guess, exactly as to how the birth/death dates came about...or
someone just put the same date in two places.
In going through the references in the Register that you mentioned, I found
a note that indicates the Parish I thought was St. Barnard, may be called,
Stanton. I've always thought Stanton was the city, St. Barnard the Parish.
Even though I've studied that quite a bit in anticipation of a trip to that
area, I'm still not sure about the Parishes, counties, cities, etc. And,
they have changed over the years. Today, it's difficult to even find Bishop
Cannings on a map (although I do have one if anyone is interested). I think
it may once have been a city, but I believe is only an historic area now.
There are a number of Parishes surrounding Bishop Cannings and people who
have transcribed records haven't been really careful about making sure they
had the right one. I have been pleasantly surprised that the information I
have is dovetailing nicely with this book you have referenced. I just hope
we are able to find something similar for some other Parishes in the area.
Again, thanks.
Jill Pyle
Thanks for the addition of your notes; I haven't done a whole lot of
research in Chester County, but my Dad had a researcher, Mr. Harry A. Diehl,
do some work on the family in 1985. He sent his preliminary report in
December of that year with information from "The Pyle Notebook" by Bart
Anderson. I don't have all of the notes handy right now.
I engaged a researcher (Mrs Nancy P. Speers) to do work in the Quaker
records maintained at Swarthmore College and she filled in a lot of the date
blanks including Nicholas Pyle's (son of Nicholas and Edith Musprat Pyle)
second marriage to Ann Webb on February 13, 1713 (old calendar) at
Philadelphia Monthly Meeting. She indicated that those members of the family
who were Quaker were held in very high respect in the community.
Thanks for your continuing work and I look forward to each addition to the
family information be it DNA or regular research.
Rob - Tulsa
Jill, Rob, et al -
This URL
http://www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/Counties/Wiltshire/Publications?Session/@id=D_v1x09jIL9q1uhJLteozP
links to the webpage for the Victoria Histories of the Counties of England.
I used to read the volumes for Wiltshire when I was an undergrad at Penn
State.
Anyway, the webpage lists the different Hundreds in Wiltshire (a Hundred is
a geographical subdivision of the County, or Shire). Bishop Cannings is in
the Hundred of Potterne and Cannings, But Stanton St. Bernard is in the
Hundred of Swansborough. Overton (the other place of Pyle interest in
Wiltshire) is in the Hundred of Elstub and Everleigh.
All very confusing :-)
Joe
Elizabeth Langrish Pyle Earth mentions
Froxfield and East Meon in
Hampshire in her will. Two of the children of Thomas Pyle, Christian
and John, were born and died from 1545-1551 at Froxfield. If Christian
Pyle was the oldest child of Thomas Pyle and was born in 1545, then
Thomas Pyle would have married in 1544 and been about 21 years old.
This would put his birth at about 1522. If Elizabeth Langrish Pyle
Earth's was the only wife of Thomas Pyle, then she was born about
1526. When her will was probated in 1619, she would have been about
93 years old. It is possible, but I am not sure that she was the first
wife of Thomas Pyle.
Steve Thrasher
From the Wiltshire muster rolls of 1539:
Richard Pyle, archer, of Collingbourne
William Pyle, archer, of Collingbourne
Edward Pyle of Overton
Steve Thrasher
<< Have copies of two wills:
Thomas Pyle of Collingbourne, Wiltshire, dated 1561
(wife- Elizabeth Langrish, dau of Ralph of East Meon in Hampshire)
mentions daus. Christian, Agnes, Jane
(Christian born at Froxfield in Hampshire)
son Gabriel
brothers Richard, John
Richard Pyle of Great Bedwyn, Wiltshire, dated 1593
mentions daus. Edith, Agnes
sons John the elder, John the younger, Roger
Overseer of will-Mr. Pile of Collingbourne
Steve Thrasher
Bishops Canning PYLE information:
John Pyle, son of Ambrose, baptised 09 Feb 1622
Edward Pyle, son of John, baptised 06 May 1632
Steve Thrasher
PYLE Extracts from Dummer Parish in Hampshire:
William Pyle buried 20 Jul 1611
Jone Pyle buried 03 Feb 1609
Jone Pyle, dau of William and Amye Pyle, baptised 30 Jul 1584
William Pyle, son of Francis ? Pyle, baptised 12 Feb 1619
Jone Pyle, dau of ????, baptised 31 Jul 1614
William Pyle, son of William, buried 17 Feb 1609
Phillip Pyle, son of William and Amye Pyle, baptised 03 Apr 1610
Elizabeth Pyle, dau of William and Amye yle, baptised 12 Dec 1607
Barbara Pyle, dau of Edward Pyle of Wallop and Alice (Madgewick),
baptised 10 Jul 1608, buried 12 Jul 1608
Walter Madgewick married Barbara Pynke on 15 Jun 1584
Alice Madgewick, dau of Walter and Barbara, baptised 29 Sep 1587
Henry Madgewick, son of Walter and Barbara, baptised 21 Sep 1590
Robert Madgewick, son of Walter and Barbara, baptised 04 Jan 1595
Elizabeth Madgwick, dau of Walter and Barbara, baptised 08 Jan 1597
John Madgewick, son of Walter and Barbara, baptised 25 Jun 1601
Alice Madgewick, wife of Thomas, buried 22 Jan 1591
Steve Thrasher
I just received some microfiche I ordered from a researcher
in Andover, Hampshire, England. I purchased the following fiches:
Upper Clatford, Hampshire Scullard Family
Bishops Canning, Wiltshire Pyle, Sloper, Tarrant, Withers Families
Overton, Hampshire Pile Family
Stevenson, Hampshire ???? (just looking)
Dummer, Hampshire Pile Family
Over Wallop, Hampshire Kent, Pyle Families
I plan on extracting the Pile/Pyle names over the next month.
Steve Thrasher
In checking my notes, I also found the following:
1257 William de la Pyle living at Seend in Wiltshire
(Seend is abt 15 miles wsw of Bishops Canning)
1323-24 Thomas de la Pyle of Beer and Seaton (Nottingham ?)
"atte" means from , so "atte Pyle" would be "from Pyle"
"de" means of, so "de la Pyle" would be "of La Pyle"
Steve Thrasher
In my research, I have found references to a William atte
Pile
in 1331 in Wiltshire and a Richard de la Pile in the late 1200s.
I am guessing that the original Piles were of Norman descent
and came from around La Pyle in Normandy a few miles SW
of Rouen.
Steve Thrasher
1539 Muster Roll of Wiltshire under Henry VIII
Collyngbourn - Willyam Pyle - archer; Richard Pyle - archer
Overton - Edward Pyle - archer
Mylton - Thomas Pyell - bill; Thomas pyle - sword & dagger
Wotton Ryvers - Willm. Pylle - bill
Cleve Pyperde - John Horne - harness
Pewsey - John Benger, a Gentylman - horse & harness
Robert Duket and Elizabeth (Horne), his wife
Peter Edge and Edith (Horne), his wife
Richard Pyle and Elizabeth, his wife
vs
Robert Wroughton of Overtown
regarding- Detention of deeds relating to land in Bupton,
Yatesbury, Ashtown (Calne), Swindon, Thornhill and
Cliff Pipard, late of Thomas Horne deceased, brother
of the said Elizabeth and Edith and of Jane, mother of
Elizabeth Pyle, his heirs.
Steve Thrasher
Steve - others,
I believe you will find that Thomas Pyle (Pile) was married twice. If you go
to my web pages - www.jeffpylenz.com go to the Content section - Family
Trees - PYLE FAMILIES IN THE OVER -NETHER WALLOP AREA (I haven't attached a
full link as it will break - so is easier for everyone to follow these
directions - please)
then click on the top left hand image (thumbnail) of that full chart you
will see the following on the enlarged view
Born 1535 - Thomas Pile de Bubton in Com Wilts filiaset her (Will pr 24 Dec
1561 P.C.C. 38 Loftes) = Elizabeth filia Radi Langrish de Border fili
iunioris Langrish de Langrish in Com South (5m.W of Peterfield ) = 2ndly
Roger Earth of Dinton (Will pr 18 Feb 1619-20 P.C.C. 1905 oblit?)
Hint - you can use your photo magnifying system on your computers to blow up
the image - To save the images just right over each image (enlarged views
best) and save to your own files.)
Jeff Pyle
New Zealand
www.jeffpylenz.com
Thomas Pyle of Collingbourne-Kingston
Now, I am confused. Information from the will of Thomas Pyle
of Collingbourne-Kingston reads that his wife's name was
ISABELA (same as in marriage record) not Elizabeth as in
will of Elizabeth Earth. Is this a transcription error ?
Steve Thrasher
Louisville, Ky
Jeff, I agree that he was married twice, but his will
names Isabel
as his wife, and if Elizabeth Earth was his widow, then somewhere
there is a mistake. Did you see the posting on the will of Robert
Pyle of Upton-Scudamore ? Curiously, he named his uncle as
John Benger of Alton. Found that Robert Pyle's daughter, Mary
Pyle, married Robert Burton of Brinklow (not Brinkley) in Warwick
on 26 Oct 1576.
Steve Thrasher
Louisville, Ky
I believe that (and it is only a theory) that you will
find that Isabel was
the name (registered birth name of Elizabeth Earth) but was known all her
life as Elizabeth
If you go to my article "Pyle Family of Bishop Canning link to OUR family
line." (www.jeffpylenz.com -CONTENT - Family Trees ) and then look at the
bottom of the article EARTH/PYLE on the "Abstracts of Wills in the
Prerogative Court of Canterbury at Somerset House, London."
You will see she is referred to as Elizabeth here - (The death certificate -
if you can locate one) should show her birth name as what I suggested as
above. This actually gives you two methods as it gives the burial location -
which in their church files should record Elizabeth (as Isabel) on the date
of burial.
Jeff Pyle
New Zealand
Will of Robert Pyle of Upton-Scudamore, Wiltshire
dated September 1601
Brother - William Pyle
Nephew - Jacob Pyle, son of William
Brother in law - James Corderay of Compton Chamberlayne
Edward and Arthur Johnson
Sister's children of Compton Chamberlayne
Uncle - John Benger of Alton
Brother - John Pyle of Studley, Wiltshire
Brother in law - Robert Burton of Brinkley, Warwickshire
Daughter - Ame Higson
Son in law - William ????? of Hinton Abbey
Brother in law - Anthony ?????
Wife Joane Pyle
Jeff, I was searching the net and came across the
following
attached sites:
http://www.purley.demon.co.uk/6-lochist/G6600JL1.htm
http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/search/index.asp (searched for Pile and Pyle
Savernake Estate Papers
08 Feb 1587 Assignment of Lease by Thomas Blagrave and son, John
of Grafton to Richard Pile, gentleman of Great Bedwyn
08 Oct 1587 Lease for 40 years... Richard Pile, gentleman, of Great
Bedwyn to Thomas Alford of Great Bedwyn
30 May 1589 Assignment of Lease by Edith Pile, widow of Richard
Pile
of Great Bedwyn to John Blagrave
26 Jun 1593 Assignment of Lease by John Pyle of Great Bedwyn
to John Blagrave of East Grafton
06 Jan 1594 Assignment of Lease by John Pile of Great Bedwyn, exec.
of Richard Pile his late father, to John Blagrave
12 Dec 1506 Gift in Fee by Thomas Tarrant the elder to Robert
Duket
and Thomas Brounden in Burbage Manors
20 Apr 1507 Gift in Fee by Robert Duket, gentleman to Henry
Pynkeney and Thomas Burry - one acre of land at Burbage Savage
31 May 1515 John Horne and Margaret his wife demise of a messauge
and one virgate of land called WARYNS held if the gift of John Horne
for life with reversion to William Horne their son and his heirs or
in default of heirs to their daughters
# 406 Thomas Blagrave descended from ancient family of Duckett
Steve Thrasher
Jeff, I received some
information form Hampshire on three pyle wills. They are as follows:
John Pyle of upper wallop 19 sep 1577
sons - john, William, Davie, Stephen, Henry
daus - Katherine miller, eme osgood, Bridgett Kent
john pile of Andover 17 junk 1588
sister - Gillian parker
sons - Robert, john
wife - Eleanor
grandson - John, son of Robert
dau - rose
Edward pyle of upper wallop 20 Jull 1650
sons - Richard, Robert
grandson - Edward, son of Richard ?
Dau - Joan Blake (relict of Robert Blake)
godson - Robert Blake
cousin - Walter pyle, son of Walter pyle of Lyndhurst decd
Steve thrasher
Louisville, KY
over wallop, Hampshire burials unless noted
William pyle, buried 08 sep 1546
Olive pyle, buried 12 mar 1557
Agnes pyle, buried 10 jun 1558
John pyle, buried 19 junk 1558
Richard pyle, buried 22 cot 1570
John pyle, buried 21 mar 1576
Ellen pyle, buried 25 mar 1577
Ellen pyle, buried 18 aug 1577
John pyle, buried 20 sep 1577
dorothie pyle, buried 20 jul 1586
Phillis pyle, buried 11 jan 1594
Richard pyle, buried 09 sep 1605
Henry pyle, buried 08 may 1614
William pyle, buried 06 cot 1615
Henry pyle, buried 26 Jull 1616
Ruth pyle, buried 26 may 1618
Richard pile, buried 05 cot 1657 overtone
Richard pyle, buried 11 jan 1659 knights encamp
William pyle, buried 01 jan 1686 knights encamp
Thomas pyle, buried 13 jan 1695 knights encamp
Edward pyle, buried 15 may 1713
Richard pyle, buried 23 junk 1715 knights encamp
Thomas pyle, buried 12 mar 1721
John pyle, buried 08 may 1743
George pyle, buried 08 mar 1746
Msagdalen pyle, buried 22 may 1746
Joseph pyle, buried 25 aug 1748
Mary pyle, buried 30 sep 1748
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